higher than the drain, but not more than 9 in. ANSWER - First of all, the way you construct a shower pan is to first apply a pre-sloped mortar bed to establish a slope to the drain of 1/4" per foot. Fasten it down with roofing nails or staples. Check the subfloor area from left to right and from front to back to make sure it's level. The entire shower will be done with Kerdi. Should I use liquid water proofing membrane over a standard shower mud pan? When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. In the mixing tray, mix the mortar with water, using a garden hoe. A subfloor is the layer at the very bottom of your shower pan. The KERDI-SHOWER-LT accommodates the KERDI-LINE drain at intermediate locations and is also offered in a selection of sizes with thicknesses ranging from 1-1/4" (32 mm) to 1-7/16 (36 mm). Unlike the surface of a concrete slab, wood subfloors may have irregularities or require additional fasteners at the area of a shower. There are no special qualifications necessary to observe a wet floor, so the inspector should have little to do other than nod at a full pan and a dry floor. Various sizes are available to accommodate both center drain and perimeter drain placement. in reply: 1) Lawrence Taylor - The subfloor is the first layer of plywood over the joists, which I lowerd about 1 1/2 inches by removing 2-by material that was put over these joints by the last guy who remodeled this bathroom. Cut out the hole for the shower drain. One popular way to create a shower pan is to install a pre-fabricated polyurethane or fiberglass pan. This blocking or backing often isnt easily visible once the liner is installed. Contact us: 888-472-4588 How do you expect to prevent steam from getting everywhere? Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. For curbless showers without such a dam, the floor-level threshold at the opening serves the same purpose. Is there any way to alleviate the movement from the hangers? The flange is a 1/8" thick, 5" high FRP composite MATERIAL that is designed to rise between the stud wall and the showers backer wall. In order to add support and reinforce the subfloor structure, you can add a secondary layer that the built up shower pan will sit on top of. Its important to note that when working with a concrete subfloor, a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness must be used to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. For a seat designed for sitting, that hazard could be argued as bather beware if he chooses to stand on it. Like all drains, the intent is for bulk water to drain through the visible drain opening. Replace the top cap and screw or bolt it tightly into position. Install the liner over the preslope & wrapping the curb, extending a minimum of 6" up the wall. Walk-in showers are large showers that can either be created from scratch or built using premanufactured pans and wall panels sold as kits. Use mortar between OSB and old concrete subfloor, in shower? With the trowel, taper down the mortar to the shower drain. Bases come in a variety of materials, from acrylic, molded stone, and fiberglass. This may require the services of a qualified design professional (e.g., architect, engineer, etc.). With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. Your email address will not be published. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Install the shower wall tile backer board and place the top mortar bed. The hyperbolic space is a conformally compact Einstein manifold. I will have to look some more when I get home, but i don't think there will be any getting around using hangers. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The subfloor needs to be a minimum of two layers of 3/4-inch exterior grade plywood before you can move to actually putting down the concrete layer of deck mud that provides the slope and the. DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. Sweep out any debris from sub floor. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Let the primer dry. The same answer, I presume, is applicable to a dry pack pan as well? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Curbs must be at least 2 in. Because of this, hand-fabricating shower pans can increase the chance of failure, and code provisions generally address two hazards: leaks and sanitation. He spent more than 15 years as a third-generation tile and stone contractor before transitioning into freelance writing. With the trowel, taper down the mortar to the shower drain. This slope is later refined with a second bed of mortar. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. A dependable, waterproof shower pan, or floor, is essential to the overall operation of the shower. Then you have to waterproof the pre-sloped mortar bed with either a liquid applied membrane or a sheet membrane. Aim for a height of about 1-1/2 inches on the border. Premanufactured panels and pans as walk-in showers can be installed directly over the top of the concrete without any concern. For hardwood finish flooring, which average about 3/8-inch to 3/4-inch in thickness, 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch-thick plywood is the preferred subfloor, though there are a variety of . His hobbies include horses, motorcycles, road racing and sport fishing. The objective of this piece of paper is to provide a layer of moisture-inhibiting protection on top of the wood so that when you put the first layer of your deck mud in place to slope to the drain, the wood does not soak up the moisture and cause the concrete to dry too quickly. Form the shower pan box frame with blocking between the studs. Cut two-by-six lumber to fit between the studs of the shower stall. How to install a shower pan drain with this non-standard drainage pipe? Usually installers prefer to start with a half-inch of mud around the drain and slope their way upwards from there, roughly 1/8-inch per linear foot. Nail the top of the waterproof material to the studs to prevent it from falling. Afterwards, a shower pan liner is installed on top of the slope bed, flattened and stretched tight across the shower pan and stapled into place roughly 6 inches up the wall studs. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Note: While the image below shows a wood subfloor, this is also achievable with a concrete subfloor. Its important to not make a mess when filling the pan for the test, as a dry floor is necessary to ensure there are no leaks. Code requires that lining materials in field-built shower pans slope 1/4 in. DITRA is specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations. Free Tile and Stone Installation Guidelines, Why is the Wood Grain Finish on my Glazed Porcelain Tile Coming, Tile Installer Thin-set Standards (ITS) Verification Course. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Allow mortar to cure overnight before installing the base or pan. The studs were rotten, the subfloor was rotten, and the top of the joists (in some places) were weak and rotten. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung. Wood floors first need to be able to withstand the weight of a custom walk-in shower. Acrylic shower pans are the least expensive type of pan and can last for about 10 years before there could be a crack or leak. Tiling Project Guide. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I beefed up all the supports. Install the shower liner. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Uncoupling membrane with integrated sound control and thermal break. Why did US v. Assange skip the court of appeal? 22K views 1 year ago Installing an acrylic or fiberglass shower pan using a mortar bed increases the strength and longevity of your shower pan. First, am I correct in determining 1/2" as not enough support ? Waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder: Schluter-KERDI, 4. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? The first step is to determine the depth of the shower pan. Shower pan membrane typically comes in thicknesses from 30 mil (0. IMHO, if you will be tiling the floor I would put a water proof membrane under the entire floor and not worry about using pressure treated wood for the subfloor. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. Lee has over two decades of hands-on experience remodeling, fixing, and improving homes, and has been providing home improvement advice for over 13 years. Litigation and Insurance Claims Investigation Services. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Resting above the waterproof membrane is a second bed of mortar that generally follows the same contours as the preslope. Hammer down any protruding nails used to fasten the subfloor to the floor joists below. The trays can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or they may be extended with dry-pack mortar. Layers of a shower pan. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If total energies differ across different software, how do I decide which software to use? KERDI-DRAIN features an integrated bonding flange that provides a large contact area for adhering the KERDI waterproofing membrane and creating a secure waterproof connection at the top of the drain assembly. rev2023.4.21.43403. What risks are you taking when "signing in with Google"? Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. Clean the Subfloor. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? If the subfloor is not flat and level, apply a self-leveling compound following the . How to Attach to a Concrete Ceiling Without Drilling, 12 indoor plants you dont need a green thumb to keep alive, How to Set an Acrylic Shower Pan in Mortar. Frame out shower stall area to shower pan dimensions. I used an unbonded mortar bed, so I have a tar paper slip sheet on the subfloor with wire mesh stapled to the top of it. A surprise to many, this means the blocking and studs may need to be shaved down by the thickness of the liner material to accommodate it. Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. 4. This liner is the last line of defense between water and the subfloor. A surprise to many, this means the blocking and studs may need to be shaved down by the thickness of the liner material to accommodate it. Its strong. Prepare subfloor and drain plumbing. Would I be better w/ 12" o.c. It would always be wise to waterproof the seat in some manner. This is often just a piece of lumber laid in place with an additional length of liner draped over it. Blocking allows you to run the waterproofing material up the sides of the shower, which creates the DIY shower pan liner. >The KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT are prefabricated sloped shower trays that eliminate the need for a mortar bed, thus reducing both the weight and installation time. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Not out of concern for spilled water but because it's a steam shower, so your overall bathroom is going to become a playground for mold. The liner itself must be recessed into its backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering. In other words, the face of the liner should be flush with the face of the studs so the wall covering can be installed flat to the wall. for 2x6 joists w/ a 40" span under the shower pan? These instructions assume you are building a shower pan on plywood subflooring, but if you are building a DIY shower pan on concrete slab, you will need to consider a riser kit. I removed these and droped the 3/4 OSB subfloor only in the shower area. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Oatey's shower pan liners are offered with either CPE (CPE pan liners are recommended if your floor has a radiant heat system) or PVC sheet material at 30 mil. Water that gets into the mortar bed won't be able to drain out. Install the plywood or cement board on the subfloor using nails or screws. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. And if the pan isnt properly sloped to carry water to the drain, water standing in the pan can become a petri dish of bacteria and possibly a slipping hazard. A secondary drain, mounted on the waterproof pan under the showers finished floor, drains this water away. They might begin to flex a bit, which may need a fix. Mix it thoroughly with the trowel to remove any clumps. What do I do about the Missing Stair Nosing and Short Stair Tread. While the latter do not require any special considerations since the panels and pan are installed straight on top of the subfloor and drywall, custom-build walk-in showers require physically challenging preparatory steps in order to get the floor ready for the shower itself. Install a pre-slope. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. KERDI-DRAIN features an integrated bonding flange to which the KERDI waterproofing membrane is adhered and forms a waterproof connection at the top of the tile assembly. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? in the area of concern. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. Are you implying you would use pressure treated wood in the subfloor and not redgard it? The shower pan preslope is a mortar base that creates the general tapered slope for the shower pan. Alternatively, you can choose to install a cement backer board as your subfloor or as an addition for support and structure. He studied architecture at Taft Junior College. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. How thick is shower pan membrane? Use tile spacers to maintain proper distance between tiles. Prefabricated sloped shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-LTS, 3. The primary objective is to support the weight of the built up shower pan and provide a durable subfloor in the event of the natural processes of home settling and seismic movements. You'll need various materials for a shower pan to build up several layers. Measuring it at that point. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. 2. KERDI-BOARD, a multifunctional waterproof building panel, gives you more control over your tile installation project by providing you with the means to simply and easily create ideal substrates for tile. The combination of these four essential functions allows for the successful installation of tile over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/ OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Get daily tips and tricks for making your best home. There are many resources available regarding the techniques and skills required to assemble a quality site-built shower pan, but they often fall short in explaining the details required by modern plumbing standards. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 5. Depending on the size of the shower it doesn't always work, but it saves time if you can work it out that way. KERDI-DRAIN grates are available in four stylish designs and multiple finishes. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. The drain must be sealed so the pan can be filled with water to a depth of at least 2 in., measured at the threshold. With the liner installed and visible, the next step is the leak test. DO NOT SAND, CUT, OR MAKE ANY CHANGES/MODIFICATIONS TO THE SURFACE OF THE SHOWER PAN WHATSOEVER. No I would not apply water proofer to the subfloor under the shower pan (unless we are going to be waterproofing the entire floor it might be easier to just continue it under the shower pan). Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel . Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 4. Has the cause of a rocket failure ever been mis-identified, such that another launch failed due to the same problem? Made of polyethylene, DITRA serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Coat both sides of the seam with the primer or sealer appropriate to the material, covering about 4 inches from the edges. Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels. Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Seems like 2-3 inches. The anchoring fleece is embedded in thin-set mortar to provide a mechanical bond to the substrate. Using KERDI-BOARD to build walls over stud framing in wet areas is an efficient alternative to using gypsum board. Cut notches into the floor joists to the permitted depth using a reciprocating saw, if no reinforcement is needed according to building code or plans. When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. Later, grout is added to the tile seams. Then another layer of deck mud is added on top of the shower pan liner. What is this brick with a round back and a stud on the side used for? The code offers a number of choices for this application, from the time-tested but relatively outdated use of lead sheets and hot-mopped layers of asphalt felt to the common plastic liners used today. DITRA provides uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Use the scrap two-by-four to help estimate the slope from the walls down to the shower drain. Build a high border around the perimeter of the shower, about 1/4-inch below the tile top perimeter line. If it comes apart, repeat the process. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. This can be tricky to set up and should be planned for ahead of time when building a curbless shower. Stand in the base or pan to determine if the subfloor is stable. Shower basins are called pans, floors, or receptors. It also prompts the verification of solid blocking in the walls surrounding the shower for backing and attaching the liner. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Ideally you would need to cut single, large pieces and screw them into the running boards or concrete slab. Using Tile To Create a Custom Shower Floor in Your Bathroom. *Recessing the floor of a shower must be done in a way that preserves the structural integrity and safety of the construction. Based on the comments to this answer, updated answer: Since you're waterproofing the entire room, its not essential. Alternatively, add small amounts of mortar to fill the low spot and repeat the process. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Premanufactured kit showers may be installed without worry. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. This question is specifically about the subfloor. For professionals it looks easy, but only. TileTip.com is your premier source for tile information and all the remodeling questions you have before, during, and after the installation. 2) The pre-slope under the pan liner channels any water that gets through the tile and grout into the weep holes in the drain assembly. Install Subfloor Counting and finding real solutions of an equation. Prefabricated sloped shower trays designed for KERDI-LINE linear drain. Why typically people don't use biases in attention mechanism? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. Are there any canonical examples of the Prime Directive being broken that aren't shown on screen? 1. Premanufactured kits do not weigh enough to be of concern, so you can go directly over the existing subfloor (plywood or OSB). DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. However, if you hear the term shower base, that is the portion that sits below the tray/pan. rev2023.4.21.43403. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT prefabricated sloped shower trays eliminate the need for a mortar bed which ultimately reduces the weight and installation time. While the detail images below demonstrate options for KERDI-DRAIN, please note that raising the bathroom floor is also possible with KERDI-LINE. DITRA-HEAT features a thickness of 1/4" (5.5 mm) and is especially designed to allow for the easy installation of DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables. Become a member and get unlimited site access, including the It will never come into contact with the pan liner. The first step in a site-built shower pan installation and the first signal to the inspector of whats to comeis the two-part drain assembly. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? Wearing waterproof gloves, dump the mixed mortar onto the shower floor. Make sure the surface is at a level. This provides the bonding element for the concrete and gives it something to hold onto. DITRA-HEAT features a thickness of 1/4" (5.5 mm) and is especially designed to allow for the easy installation of DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables. The first and most popular because of its affordability and ease of installation is paint-on latex waterproofing. But a shower pan isn't just about function. The classically-inspired KERDI-DRAIN is offered in a variety of grate finishes and accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses. Mark the top of the coat hanger and withdraw it. Yes, it is important to lay subfloor down before installing a shower pan in the bathroom. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. But these drains go a step further. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Can I do the typical 16"o.c. It only takes a minute to sign up. The flange is fusion welded to the perimeter of the shower base's core. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. KERDI-SHOWER-TT features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] - 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. The entire bottom of the shower pan needs to sit on a flat, level surface. Trusted, comprehensive guidance from the pros for a great-looking tile job in any room of the house. KERDI is specifically designed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. This video shows you one way to set the. The finished floors of showers can slope up to 1/2-in- 12; anything steeper could be a slip hazard. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. After you have put down a double layer of plywood to provide the base for a custom walk-in shower pan, you need to cover the subfloor with a layer of tar paper, in this case referred to as a vapor barrier or a moisture barrier. To install the subfloor, whether it is the primary or secondary layer, you will need to accurately measure the length and width of your built up shower pan, also taking into consideration any non-square corners. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. If a plywood subfloor already exists, it may be redundant to add to the subfloor, which would only be increasing the height and add minimal support and structure. tar command with and without --absolute-names option. Add the Top Mortar Layer. Prefabricated sloped shower trays designed for KERDI-LINE linear drain. A standard material used for a subfloor is going to be a cut to size plywood, mainly due to its availability. You can now add the rest of the cement boards down to the level of the mortar bed. Install KERDI-LINE adjacent to the wall, or at intermediate locations of your shower floorand then choose the drain grate that best matches your dcor and desired finished look. per ft. toward weep holes in the subdrain. VASPKIT and SeeK-path recommend different paths. It is going to be 4 tall or so from the bathroom floor. If the shower pan is done properly, I shouldn't expect water to get into the subfloor. otherwise I'd be in big trouble (even if it was treated). If you are worried about it and need to use 1/2" sheathing for other reasons then just install 2x blocking perpendicular to the joist at a shorter distance on center, say 8"-12" O.C. What is scrcpy OTG mode and how does it work? Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. Unless you waterproof the entire room floor, walls, and ceiling, steam induced moisture is going to penetrate SOMEWHERE to wood. Jan 21, 2021. If you are worried about it and need to use 1/2" sheathing for other reasons then just install 2x blocking perpendicular to the joist at a shorter distance on center, say 8"-12" O.C. This is especially true when remodeling at an existing subfloor. 1 Answer Sorted by: 2 1/2" is a bit thin to span that distance, although it should not be a problem with a concrete slab above it. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? It is important to remember, if you choose a cement backer board, you will need to use the manufacturer recommended backer board screws. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The KERDI-SHOWER-TT is available in six sizes, including a neo-angle option, and features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] to 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. With the rest of the shower drain temporarily in place, draw a pencil or chalk line around the perimeter of the walls to add a reference line, which represents the top of the tile. DITRA is a polyethylene membrane with a grid structure of square cavities, each cut back in a dovetail configuration, and an anchoring fleece laminated to the underside. Johnathan C. Brewer II is a licensed general contractor specializing in kitchen, bath remodels, and general constructionwith two decades of professional experience. Sign up for eletters today and get the latest how-to from Fine Homebuilding, plus special offers. Though you can make your own shower pan, our experts say this project is best left to professionals and experienced tile setters. Learn more about the essentials of waterproofing. Of course the (relatively) small increase in price for treated plywood may be worth the peace of mind (are be a backup if water makes it through the floor's water proofer. A minor leak may only be discovered after the nearby walls or floor below are heavily damaged (code is not concerned with a visible escape of water pouring out onto your bathroom floor, but rather a sneaky invisible leak). Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel. It is normal to have a shower curb/dam. The grate assembly accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses and allows lateral and tilt adjustment as well. In 35 years, he's gained expertise in all phases of residential construction, retrofit and remodeling. Designed specifically for ceramic tile and dimension stone installations, DITRA serves as an uncoupling layer, waterproofing membrane, and vapor management layer that accommodates moisture from beneath the tile covering. KERDI-BAND is only 4 one-thousands of an inch (4 mil)-thick, half the thickness of KERDI thus limiting buildup, and ensuring a smooth surface for tile installation.. Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels. Ask an assistant to help position the shower base or pan in place, with the hole for the drain centered over the drainpipe or hole in the subfloor. If your shower is not a square, and they rarely are, you still need to have the same thickness at the walls all the way around the perimeter. Is it safe to publish research papers in cooperation with Russian academics? Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, 1.
